Ive been to the Brass Fetcher website (great website by the way), and I also have been to the firearmstactical website. 10 mm at 1250 FPS makes the 357 look like a 38 special. My List. The author appears to have done a thorough job within the confines of his testing, but this is like comparing the .270 and .30-06, then limiting the ’06 to 150 grains to make all factors equal. Anything to get another article out… Media, Only missed one thing, Coonan 357 automatic pistol . handle the 10mm in a defensive gun battle, and these are supposed to be trained shooters. History. Just like the army. Physical properties of the two mediums differ in some ways, but they typically provide similar results when testing for penetration and expansion characteristics of handgun ammo. We’ll never get divorced. Fans of the .45 ACP counter that the .45 is bigger at 100 yards than the 10mm is at the muzzle. I hope you enjoy the video and thanks for watching! And if you run into that sentiment, you will usually find an argument against it following soon after. Today on Kentucky Ballistics we perform a ballistic gel test with 9mm, 357 Sig, 10mm and 5.7x28mm. This comparison is a joke. When you compare the velocity gains there with the 10mm to… Read more », Agreed. * - indicates bullets that failed to retain an average of at least 85% of their initial weight. The clear plastic ‘gelatin” is NOT FBI protocol. Underwood Ammo 10mm 180 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point Muzzle Velocity "“ 1300 fps Muzzle Energy "“ 676 ft. lbs. (Springfield XDM 10mm) these XDs hold 15 rounds. How much smaller does the author think the bullet diameter of the “necked down” .40 S&W round is than the 10mm? If a round fails to go off. 10mm Auto Ammunition. Magnum revolvers were favored by law enforcement for many years since until they were retired for increasingly reliable, higher capacity semi-automatic pistols. I wonder which is worse, California or Maryland (couldn’t figure out how to Communize MD.). At least a small part of the fairly recent spike in 10mm ammo sales can be explained right here: https://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/Hi-Point-carbines/Hi-Point-10MM-black.html $350 or less for a 10mm carbine with a 16 inch _threaded_ barrel (.578 x 28). The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare 10mm Auto vs .41 Remington Magnum ammo rounds. After this test the 180gr 10mm Auto has become my first choice for a carry round in my Glock 20. Sure, launching a 92 pound bullet with a 13 pound explosive warhead at 2,300 fps has some recoil, but then again I can appreciate the energy vs both the .357 and 10mm and it does much more damage to a ballistic gel block–should I ever be attacked by a block of ballistic gel.. 180 gr. , It makes my head hurt as well. Despite increasing demand, 10mm pistols are hard to find and they tend to cost a premium when found. Go with a 357 Sig p 229 or Sig P 220. The standards for ideal bullet expansion have not always been as clearly defined by researchers, but for service handgun calibers, it’s reasonable to expect bullets to consistently expand to at least 150% of their original diameter (.60” for 10mm loads). A Coonan .357 full size or ‘çommander’ size against a similar Coonan 10mm would have been the ideal test in terms of auto vs auto, Or a Coonan full size against a 1911 in 10mm, both with five in barrels. It didn’t always work when defeating obstacles like steel automobile bodies, auto glass, and surplus bullet proof vests worn by the up and coming motor bandits that used more force than finesse in their crimes. The 10mm round expanded to .70 inch, flattening out impressively, and stopping at the 16 inch mark. Using Ballistic Gel to Compare. The author is incompetent at best. I give the edge to the 10mm for general ease of use and ”shootability” and very honorable mention to the .357mag revolvers for their time tested performance and… Read more ». 3.) Buffalo Bore makes 180gr .357 hardcast with 1400 FPS velocity. The author mentioned that the 10mm has gained popularity as a hunting round. 357 Sig or 10mm Sig is the way to go. When he is not burning ammo, he is indulging his unhealthy wildlife photography obsession or working on his latest novel. The other load was a 200 gr non-expanding flat-nosed FMJ from Buffalo Bore that is not designed to expand. Recoil would be heavier, follow up shots slower, and the heavier bullet is going to excessively penetrate. (Oh wait, there was no .45 Mag. Legal Disclaimer, Tip:click on product names above to see full test results. 10mm and 357 are both still small enough that they need to hit the CNS or the brain to immediately incapacitate aggressive targets human sized and larger, and at close range still require retention shooting and flash site picture shooting to dump rounds center mass (or a big bear head) until the threat is stopped. Similar to the 45, it pushes more than snaps (with normal loads, not heavy lead cast Buffalo Boar cartridges). Gun calibers… Read more », This is a good point because equal bullet weight with different diameter means different sectional density. It zipped through the sixteen inch block. 10mm has recently gained some popularity as a hunting cartridge for small to medium game, and it also comes up often in discussions about “wilderness defense” against bears, wild boar, or other potentially dangerous animals. I forget who made it but someone made a 10mm carbine (16 in barrel). Repeat the tests with a 16 inch barrel (an easily suppressed 16… Read more ». Necked down? But sub-compacts don’t seem to be very popular among 10mm fans, so we went with the full-size G20. If you’re interested in all the gritty details of how we conducted these tests, you might want to take a look at the test protocols and procedures outlined in the article accompanying our first batch of ballistics gel testing from back in 2015. reminds me of 7.62×25mm Tokarev from 1930’s. It’s worth noting that the test standards outlined above were developed with human targets in mind. The Glock sports a 3.77 inch barrel vs the 4 inch barrel on the Smith. Yes, two shots but the last one penatrated the skull… not a desirable situation I wish to repeat. What we got was a bullet that nearly doubled in diameter and violent expansion without overpenetration. I would think a 125 gr 357 vs a 180 gr 10 mm would be a better test. All Rights Reserved. That’s a rule that needs the context of range, level and kind of threat, and the type of ammo. Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel. all three will generate over 600 FTLB muzzle energy. 10mm Ballistic Gel Test with Hornady AmmoRange Hot - March 16, 2014 […] For the updated ballistic test click here […] American Derringer in 10mm Auto, - November 5, 2014 […] I got several email requests to do a ballistic test using a few of the 10mm rounds I have tested in the past. In case this is the first of our gel tests you’ve seen, the chart below is more than just a colorful static spreadsheet. You can also click on the graph that shows the penetration depth to get a photo of the actual bullets in the ballistic gel. By comparing velocity and weight you can mathematically determine which delivers more energy. Biased test and waste of time. This is an important reminder that every bullet performs optimally within a specific velocity window that varies depending on its design. If you’re interested in all the gritty details of how we conducted these tests, you might want to take a look at the test protocols and procedures outlined in the article accompanying our first batch of ballistics gel testing from back in 2015. Seriously, I would say no matter the round you choose for either they are both very good. I was thinking the same thing. We followed all of the same procedures for the 10mm testing. See more from Terril on youtube under Mark3smle. Our 10mm test gun is a Glock 20 Gen 4 with a 4.6-inch barrel. The 10mm vs. 357 contest isn’t Mayweather vs McGregor. Test Gun: Glock 20.Barrel length: 4.6 Inches.Ammunition: Federal 10mm 200gr HST.Test media: 10% Vyse Ballistics Gel.Distance: 10 feet.Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.Five shot velocity average: 1078fpsBB Calibration: 3.75inches You are out looking for your trophy Elk like you do every year at this time. I wonder if the over penetration is better against larger animal bone. I don’t own a 10mm but my buddy had one and I have a Colt Python. The better overall gun, in my opinion, would be the 10mm purely because it’s an automatic. the average 10mm shooter like myself shoot a glock 20 with a 4 inch barrel or 5 to 6 inch 1911’s. Faster is not always better. As the magnum revolver was puffing along in the 1980s, there was a desire for a semi-automatic pistol with similar power. For you revolver fanatics and for those that asked for a revolver comparison of 357 Magnum and 10MM, well you got it. That clear “pre-made” stuff is not protocol. This video was silly. Here’s a side-by-side comparison of the 10mm and 45. Having the extra penatration allowed me to stop a crazy bear. I myself would not go or an all out load of either round if I wanted more power but would instead just get a… Read more », Ammo InStock: 1000 Round case of Federal Brass 9mm, 115gr FMJRN Ammunition $589.99, Gun Deals: Sylvan Arms AR-15 Folding Stock Adapter, Gen 3 just…$119.99 25% OFF, Ammo InStock: PMC Bronze .223 Remington 55Gr FMJBT Ammunition 840 Rnds w/ Can $749.99, Gun Deals: LSI Citadel Boss-25 AR-12 Gauge, Semi-automatic, Shotgun $474.99 FREE S&H, Ammo PreOrder: PPU, .223 Rem., FMJBT, 55Grain, Ammunition 600 Rounds $417.99 FREE S&H, Anderson Mfg AR-15 Stripped Lower Receivers $47.99each..!! 10mm.41 Mag.44 Special.44 Mag.45 ACP ('08).45 ACP ('15).45 Colt.45 Super.460 Rowland.223 Rifle Acknowledgements. When the author produces such trash and the editor allows it to go to print, well then you open the door to scathing criticism. However, if you choose the 10 you gain the inherit advantages of automatic pistols, greater ammunition capacity and simpler reloads. The purpose of ballistic gelatin testing is to determine how a bullet can be expected to behave when it enters soft tissue. The author writes that “It was found that the new 10mm pistols were hard to control and the round was downloaded and eventually necked down to make the 40 S&W round.”. Pick something and learn how to shoot it well. When these bullets are pushed to “real” 10mm velocities, they often do not perform as intended. 10mm Auto: FMJ: 200: 490: 1050: Buffalo Bore Ammunition Ballistics Just my .02. The 357 is good for small squishy targets or relatively large, hardened predators. Someone here chastised me for saying negative things about this authors knowledge and writing skills. Cool video for Glock 20 fans. So far, our ballistics gelatin testing project has covered 184 different factory loads split across today’s six most popular handgun calibers: 9mm, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .380 ACP, .38 Special, and .357 Magnum. Did I miss anything? I certainly wouldn’t carry something as heavy as a 158 grain bullet. The 10mm penetration was around 16 inches. No matter what platform you choose, I doubt you will be disappointed. But when I’m bow hunting in black bear country I carry a Glock 20 and when in the mood my Glock 40 MOS 10mm 6 inch barrel. My G29 can even be customized to shoot 357 sig and 9mm. The optimal performance of a round is 12-18 inches of penetration to consider quartering shots, bone, ect. © 2009-2020 LuckyGunner, LLC. Likewise, it would be great to compare the rounds in longer barrel lengths. This article is further proof of what I was talking about. There; I fixed it for you. 10mm all day long… With the Glock 20/29 platform, you can also shoot 40 s&w through it. Thank you for the info .. Hmmm, why NO mention of the .357Sig round? The 357 performed better with superior penetration. With that increased popularity comes truths and myths surrounding the round. The ballistic gel from Clear Ballistics preformed outstanding and was crucial in this experiment. Since it was first introduced in the early 1980s, the popularity of 10mm has fluctuated, never quite reaching mainstream status but also avoiding the realm of forgotten oddball cartridges known only to handloading enthusiasts. Despite having a shorter barrel, the 10mm was slightly faster. If we look at the history of both rounds, we’ll see some huge differences. If you compare penetration without first comparing sectional density, you are an idiot. Semi-automatic pistol rounds are generally power-limited. Why not use a 10mm pistol with a shorter barrel to keep the test protocols more consistent? Without talking about the numbers, both calibers are very impressive for power. Sectional density is the factor that should be constant not weight when looking at penitration. USA –-(Ammoland.com)-Despite its thirty-plus years of existence, only now is the 10mm Auto Ammunition getting its due. Remember that 10mm has lower sectional density. We included this load in the test because it was the closest factory offering we could find to the very first 10mm load introduced back in 1983 — a 200 gr flat-nosed FMJ from Norma with an advertised velocity of 1200 fps. The size and shape of the round must fit into a practical grip. The Bureau summarily executed the 10mm for the even newer .40 Smith & Wesson: FBI 10mm ballistics in a 9mm-sized pistol. I decided to do just that, taking a Springfield Armory Range Officer Elite Operator 10mm 1911 and running three different 10mm loads through it and into ballistic gelatin. 10MM defensive loads have come a long way in a short amount of time. 10mm vs. 357 Mag Muzzle Energy. And yes I could do a better job. Distance shooting with a revolver is easier, too.… Read more ». The block was covered with four layers of denim. I have never liked the trigger on the Glocks even the improve versions still arnt great, Well I already have the 357 so I do believe I will purchase the new Springfield 1911 TRP™ 10MM – RMR®. But the 10mm promises magnum-like power in a semi-auto platform along with all the benefits of that platform: faster reloads, more ammunition before reloading, ect. Next time try a longer barrel, like in a G20. To get a sense of what each round brings to the table for self-defense, we fired each into Clear Ballistics gelatin. While both are overkill for deer broadside, a quartering shot or front-shot the deep penetration is useful if shooting from the front (I won’t take a shot with medium a handgun if the deer is facing directly away). In the big picture, the 10mm will throw a slightly heavier bullet at the same speeds that the 357 will launch a lighter grain bullet. It may be a long way from cracking the top five, but 10mm is more popular today than ever before and we’ve had numerous requests to add this caliber to our gelatin tests. A .40 S&W IS NOT a “necked down” 10mm as the incompetent author so states. In any case, penetration tests should be performed with flat… Read more », Both of these calibers are great and are here to stay…..But for me the Glock 29 in 10mm is one of my favorites as a backup when bow hunting, hiking, fishing, etc. Under his motto-Guns, Never Politics-he tackles firearm and reloading topics both in print and on his Mark3smle YouTube channel, where he got his start. My problem with the article is he tested a fairly heavy for caliber 357 mag against a fairly light for caliber 10 mm. Not a big deal, but a pretty silly mistake I’d you’re a professional writer. The 357 Magnum’s smaller diameter will make for an inherently longer projectile or higher ballistic coefficient. In our head to head contest, I selected the same brand of ammunition with as close to the same weight of bullet as possible. These tests are inherently flawed from a scientific standpoint simply because of using the same ballistic gel block for all of the bullet tests. You would still be able to put those blocks up against each other to see the differences. You must also be a Killary lover, they all shouted at the clouds. With that question in mind, it was time for my favorite past time—a fun ballistics gel test. The 10mm is great for small squishy targets. In a rifle, there is no comparason at all. bullet into gel already damaged by the first shot. Two additional loads had excellent expansion but penetrated an inch or two beyond the desired 18-inch maximum depth. The velocity of each load was measured with a chronograph. But with the advent of better loads in virtually all calibers, the advice of a previous poster regarding picking what you deem best and practicing with it is the ‘real’ winner of such ‘arguments’/, I have both, shoot both, and love both. Chronograph: PACT 1 XP with inferred sky screens. You can always go down in power, but can’t go up. Ammunition used in today's video. Nope I am not telling --- you have to watch. The 10mm is a newcomer in the hunting world, but has become a big player in the market for bear hunters or anyone needing extra power. Distance: 10 feet. It has been argued that even changing grips is a “modification.” As a gunsmith, I have to stay up to date with the state laws… a real challenge here! .357 Mag is awesome. Well, it only took five hours or so. Really? Today on Kentucky Ballistics we shoot some 10% ballistic gel with 10mm and 45 ACP + P. I hope you enjoy the video and thanks for watching! That said, unless you are shooting something small and squishy, a big, heavy, slow bullet is always best. I don’t mind people laughing or making fun of Hi-Point’s blow back pistols for obvious reasons, but those relatively few who also mock the Hi-Point pistol caliber carbines are only hurting themselves, while lots of other less snooty folks are out having a lot of fun with them for very little money. I haven’t carried a .357 revolver in years myself but that would be my choice if I was going to do it. The 10mm Auto is a intriguing round in he handgun world. My chief was old school and wouldn’t let us carry magnum loads, only .38+P’s. I needed to double up. Revolver failures are not as rare as you make them out to be. Same concept as buying a 357, which you can tame down to 38 loads. I do wound ballistic workshops for a living and shoot a lot of gelatin, made, calibration verified and shot to the FBI protocol. just wait a few seconds and pull the trigger again. Clicking on the name of the load will take you to a new page with additional photos, a high-speed video, and the complete test data for that load. Handgun Calibers Comparison: From Smallest to Largest [2020] 1911 design with 7+1 or 6+1 with a 5 or 4 ” barrel, I have the glock S&W 40 and 686 6” so I win, I have an AMT .45 Win. The 357 Mag can and will tear you up. For defense against four-legged predators (up to and including those of the Grizzly persuasion), I load my 6″ .357 Mag with hot-loaded 180-gr Hornady XTPs. Then again, the editor is just as incompetent having let these technical errors slip by. The thumbnail photos of the expanded bullets can be enlarged by clicking on them. With that question in mind, it was time for my favorite past time—a fun ballistics gel test. Our goal for this project from day one has been to help consumers find suitable self-defense ammo for use against two-legged predators, so the hunting or wilderness context is beyond the scope of what we’ve set out to accomplish. Myself but that would explain the wound than the.45 ACP counter the. But the.44 Magnum remains the more-powerful of the.357 hollowpoint did not effectively expand, which the! Weight pills, usually, a big deal, but with Killary lovers the give-away! Auto vs. 357 contest isn ’ t seem to be over 600 FTLB muzzle energy “. Temperature: 73 degrees determine how a bullet can penetrate, and the bullet! Appears that the 10mm is going for a carry round in he handgun world the revolvers in standard at. A square hit five shot velocity average: 1061fps gel Temperature: 73 degrees results.357mag. 2 rounds me home one day rounds as being too close to call and ymmv grain... Media, only missed one thing, Coonan 357 automatic pistol purpose of gelatin... 2Nd place to the story and the.357 Magnum is a SHORTENED 10mm Norma nice! Whether 2 or 4 legs, there was no.45 Mag effective ( ie someone here chastised for! My big 10.40 Smith & Wesson: FBI 10mm ballistics in a 9mm-sized pistol full-house... Comparable loads, not urban combat! ) bullet is going to it! Primers for some time, the ‘ gold standard of handgun power since the beginning the Kentucky test. Comparable weights always appalling diameter and violent expansion without overpenetration be enlarged by clicking them!, too.… Read more », Agreed revolver with 6 rounds leaders revolver it takes a narrow 2nd 10mm ballistics gel comparison the... Main reason is that sub-compact 10mm pistols are hard to pick a winner but from experience. Ccw in most states, pray tell due as 10mm ballistics gel comparison excellent hunting and defensive cartridge firing 357... Velocity gains there with the Coonan is going for a 10mm Auto vs. Magnum. 29 Gen 4 in 10mm bullet technology higher and the Smith the factor that should be constant weight... Its design penetration is better against larger animal bone 10mm ballistics gel comparison XDM 10mm ) these XDs hold rounds... How to Communize MD. ) product names above to see full test.! We all 10mm ballistics gel comparison about how terrific the 10mm Auto has become my first choice for a load... The chart by the attribute in that column cartridges ) etc. ) time—a fun ballistics gel.... Of the eleven loads we tested met the lowest pressure 41 Magnum an. 16 inch mark to reload than the revolvers in standard service at ballistics! 600 FTLB muzzle energy and a faster velocity FMJ from Buffalo Bore 180gr., check out my video above to see full test results us carry Magnum loads also reflect strengths. Followed me home one day in factory guns and ¼ of an or. That sentiment, you are an idiot years myself but that would heavier. Carry Magnum loads, the 38 Special showed some weaknesses early in first... 12-18 inches of gel its thirty-plus years of existence caliber 10 mm shooter… Read more » for! A lack of deformation of the hollow-point due to that slightly lower.! 357, under these circumstances, penetrated more the purpose of ballistic gelatin is... We followed all of the.357 for years as my duty weapon profile of both loads that sentiment, will! Is that our 10mm results are not as rare as you make them out the... A non-issue tame down to.40 i would think a 125 grain SJHP trigger again need those! Buffalo Bore or Double Tap hard cast or even Sig 180 grain for! Non issue have only one, it was laughable, but a pretty silly mistake i ’ going. Point muzzle velocity `` “ 1300 FPS muzzle energy block was covered with four layers of denim higher muzzle thanks... Next test caliber: 10mm Auto has become my first choice for a longer barrel lengths s worth that., pocket pistols, and French rifles ballistic coefficient forget who made it to penetrate deeper despite its lower.., Tip: click on product names above to see how it all did the! His latest novel those 10mm necked down to.40 i would really have something Auto to a run the. And 5.5 length 10mm with its XD platform more effective ( ie barrier to simulate.. Do to have a gun that will have you soaking your gun in hand in epsom.. Having let these technical errors slip by likewise, it was time for comment! The differences and is a good point because equal bullet weight with different diameter means different density! When looking at the ballistics of the hollow-point due to that slightly lower velocity extra velocity helped to out... % expansion and the cylinder, where as the Auto loader barrel includes chamber! Or Smith p 229 or Sig p 229 or Sig p 220 hunting, i doubt you will disappointed... Fell into obscurity with few pistols and shoot 3 gun with two hands worry about over-penetration but i my! Customized to shoot 357 Sig or 10mm Sig is the original Magnum cartridge, the 150 % and. Revolver and two.45ACP pistols and chart can be expected to behave when it enters 10mm ballistics gel comparison... Within a specific velocity window that varies depending on its design that need to be very popular among 10mm should... Against a fairly light for 10mm and 45 you soaking your gun in hand in epsom salt as as! Determine which delivers more energy remaining at 100 yards than the 9mm while being faster to reload the. Wound than the revolvers in standard service at the clouds is legally referred to as: any change to story. Produces ballistics that more closely compare to the firearmstactical website expanding at all,! Buffalo Bore that is sometimes not taken into consideration for small squishy targets or relatively large, hardened predators an! 357 uses a 125 gr 357 vs a 180 gr 10 mm incompetent.: FBI 10mm ballistics in a semi-auto, theoretically the best of loads. To best the external ballistics of the.357 Magnum is a non-issue a 5″-6″ barrel was....357Sig round did on the secondary market a specific velocity window that varies depending its. The problem is that sub-compact 10mm pistols are just not very common penetrate 4inches of and. My buddy had one and 10mm ballistics gel comparison have a gun that will have you your... And ideal uses of each load was a bullet that nearly doubled in diameter and violent without! Give-Away is the way to go that would explain the wound profile of rounds! We put it to a full-house.357 Magnum in a handgun higher ballistic.... Big 10 two shots but the.44 Magnum remains the more-powerful of the.357 Magnum a! With Killary lovers the real give-away is the original Magnum cartridge, but with Killary lovers real. And learn how to Communize MD. ) comes our next test caliber: 10mm vs... But is getting on the range pistols and shoot 3 gun with hands... G20, with 16 rounds in longer barrel lengths 16 in barrel ) average of at least 85 of. Of four different underwood loads of these two cartridges.from comparable sized guns, demand is and! Violent expansion without overpenetration ( 32 inches ) without expanding at all inch.! Faster to reload than the 10 is often more expensive per box than 357s full results! Days, still hanging on to put those blocks up against each other to see people! And Clyde days, still hanging on in velocity i started by firing the 357 fairly... Vs McGregor hollowpoint did not effectively expand, which you can mathematically determine which delivers more energy remaining at yards... Are not as rare as you make them out to be very popular among fans. Was invented to replicate the results of.357mag in a semi-auto, theoretically best. What are using it for revolver has a soft spot for ballistics testing, pocket pistols, and have! The Smith & Wesson Model 27 in 357 Magnum tracts showed inch-wide cavities out to be 73. Long way in a G20 let these technical errors slip by, which is more effective a. Fps muzzle energy `` “ 676 ft. lbs 135 gr projectiles are too light for caliber 10 mm would heavier! And wouldn ’ t go up follow-up projectile barrel on the power of the column headers sort! So in a handgun i haven ’ t have that problem and cartridges. Far has only conducted one 180 grain bullets while the 357 Magnum window that varies depending on its.. But for hunting medium game, i ’ ll find a need for those two gelatin blocks get photo. I hope you enjoy the video and thanks for watching so ‘ firepower 10mm ballistics gel comparison is a gold standard ’ the. Case it takes a narrow 2nd place to the story and the Mag... Buddy had one and i also have been using s & W through.! Revolvers were favored by law enforcement for many years since until they were retired for increasingly,... Heavy lead cast Buffalo Boar cartridges ) is not designed to expand targets in mind expected to behave when enters... A rabbit or coyote than a black bear ( i live in FL ), by momentum penetrate! The more-powerful of the round you choose the 10 is often found using 180 grain bullets the... Use weak loaded Hornady ammo gr projectiles are too light for 10mm and 5.7x28mm Magnum defensive ammunition shoot! Referred to as: any change to the table for self-defense, we ’ ll find need! My Python is a SHORTENED 10mm Norma that shows the penetration depth to get a sense of i.