It is completely coated in dark chocolate and is decorated with gold leaf. The men just fell for her. Then it fits Josephine. And he said, ‘Don't worry, your children are my children.’. And he later said that as soon as he saw Josephine he said she is going to be my wife. And, she found on Beethoven's desk something that said, ‘my heart overflows at the sight of beautiful nature, although without her,’ in other words, he must have been walking in nature, in Baden, with his Beloved earlier. You have the same sort of wording in these earlier love letters and the letter to the Immortal Beloved where he says, ‘you know I have been faithful to you that no other woman can...’, MALTZ: To clarify for those who don't speak German, please explain the significance of Beethoven referring to Josephine as 'du' instead of the formal 'Sie. Second Question: Where was the Immortal Beloved letter written? Canst thou change it, that thou are not entirely mine, I not entirely thine? Oh God — so near! Dr. Steblin, thank you for joining me. She even applied for a pass to go to Italy with him and the children and so on. The problem person would be her husband, that he's the one that's causing all the problems for Beethoven. And because I did so much work on papers in the archives, especially in Jindrichuv Hradec where you have all the papers that were sent to Josephine, I noticed that her husband Stackelberg always referred to with just 'St' that the 'St'… I used to misread it as an 'A' and then that gave me the idea… Hey, this might not be 'A,' this might've been a mistake by the copyist and it really was Auf diese Art mit Stackleberg everything is going to ruin. And so you have these letters that turned up, and the language is very close to what Beethoven used in the letter to the Immortal Beloved – calls her, my angel, my all. And he talks about his love for her and that he's won her heart and that she will make him more productive in his compositions and that she knows he's faithful to her and no other woman can win his heart. Written in pencil, it is addressed to an unknown woman with whom Beethoven was apparently in a love relationship and to whom he refers at one point as his "Immortal Beloved." MALTZ: We're skipping forward now, there was another cryptic comment that has stumped Beethoven researchers for years. This date is the one most widely accepted today. When Schindler first met Beethoven, the composer explained the meaning behind a new sonata, and many years later, it turned out to be reflective of events mentioned in the “immortal beloved” letter. MALTZ: Let's get to the evidence you discovered. Upon his death, a love letter was found among his possessions. Beethoven is buried there as well, of course. STEBLIN: After the second world war, the communists came into the Czech Republic and descendants of Josephine – of her son Fritz – fled and they took with them 14 letters that they had in Beethoven's hand. Which woman is entitled to this title? How?! 8:19. Dr. Steblin, why has the idea of Beethoven's Immortal Beloved captured imaginations for almost 200 years? So this was late 1819 and, exactly at that point in Beethoven's conversation books, someone is asking him and writing out, ‘You talk so much about the woman that her husband is going to suspect that the child among his children that has musical talent is your child.’ I mean this is great proof. I mean, DNA studies are improving. And so I think what happened is that instead of going on to Karlsbad – as she had originally planned – and that's why in Beethoven's letter you have that statement, ‘We will probably see each other in K.’ But no, I think that she then sent him a letter saying, ‘Oh, I have to change my plans. What I am bringing out now are the 108 marriage letters between Deym and Josephine and they're very erotic and they show that it was really a loving marriage, not like what you read in Therese's memoirs. This biography of Ludwig von Beethoven (Gary Oldman) builds its narrative around an actual letter found after his death, addressed only to the composer's "immortal beloved." To be more exact, Beethoven in fact wrote to 'The immortal loved one' and not 'The Immortal Beloved'. He never sent this letter. And our culture would only make some sordid media soap opera out of a most sad and beautiful love story. Immortal Beloved. [I] had gotten to know,’ he used the word kennen, ‘gotten to know a woman.’. So, in 1808, Josephine, Therese, and the two little boys, Fritz and Karl went on a long journey and ended up in Switzerland. I mean, I can't afford to pay to have her bones, her remains exhumed. Beethoven’s missives to this “immortal beloved,” which include the only known love letter of his to use the informal German du for “you” rather than the formal Sie, were found among his personal effects; they were never mailed — a beautiful and tragic testament to the fact that their affair, like all affairs, was both bedeviled and vitalized by the awareness that the two lovers could never fully … Therefore, a total of 10 pages make up the Immortal Beloved letter. MALTZ: And so your theory or… you're saying that Fanny Giannatasio del Rio is simply substituting the other German verb, kennenlernen, which is just to get to know. And so what did she have to do but try to fix her marriage and, I think from the memoirs of her son, Fritz, you see what efforts she went to to be the loving wife. STEBLIN: We know from Therese Brunsvik's memoirs that there was a serious fight between Josephine and her second husband, Stackelberg, in June of 1812 and that Stackelberg got really angry and left. I'm your host Daniel Adam Maltz. So it was just made up by Schindler. So what other woman meets that? When the letter was first discovered, Schindler dated it 1806. And so it's exactly at that point that he lays claim to his nephew, even though Karl's father was still alive and wouldn't die for another few years. Which is to say, that our personage does not us allow to imagine THAT role for him. So! STEBLIN: Exactly. And the names that Josephine gave to her children all have symbolic meaning. I mean she… I know that in 1811, a year before the Immortal Beloved letter, she, was not sleeping with her husband anymore. Besides all the work he is known for, the composer once wrote a famous love letter to a nameless beloved, and the movie tries to find out who this beloved was--not easy, as Beethoven has had many women in his life. But knowing Fritz had said end of April that they'd already gotten to Baden, there I found – in an earlier list – Josephine. Our guest, musicologist Dr. Rita Steblin, finally identifies the correct woman. His longtime secretary Anton Felix Schindler takes it upon himself to track down this person to whom Beethoven has willed his fortune. Written by Smoothhoney1265 Plot Summary | Plot Synopsis Beethoven after his death left a letter addressed to his "immortal beloved," with no hint as to who that person was. And it wasn't until 1860 when he brought out another edition of his Beethoven biography with a facsimile of the letter that people could see… Oh, Julie isn't even mentioned in Beethoven's letter. Therefore, the question is: is this form of speech, as it is used today, being used the same way in which it was two hundred years ago? Before, he did not live in Vienna, and he states the fact that he lives there in his letter. Third Question: Of which towns does he speak of in the my Immortal Beloved letters? Here is a question that has used up a lot of ink. Well, the emperor was in Prague on July 1st and so I think that she wanted to try to solve these financial problems by speaking with the emperor and speaking with relatives of her husband. Beethoven is the reason why I fell in love with music. Well, here you have 1818. So why, given this, would she have returned to her husband? And I had found a letter from Charlotte, the youngest sister who had just gotten married and – this is in 1807 – where she's warning Josephine don't be alone with Beethoven. Beethoven still has them waiting and hoping in vain to be able to open his secrets. All rights reserved. The second is more difficult. Let God return peace to your soul and so that you can return to your children and your family. MALTZ: So let's move forward. The letter was discovered after Beethoven's death and, naturally, sparked intense curiosity about what woman inspired such passion. It is quite astonishing to see how much thought and speculation the Immortal Beloved letter has provoked. Then there comes an entry in Beethoven's diary that ends “Auf diese Art mit 'A' geht alles zu Grunde.” This means in this manner with (the initial A) everything goes to ruin. Oh, God, look into beautiful Nature and compose your mind to the inevitable. Beside all the work he is known for, the composer once wrote a famous love letter to a nameless beloved and the movie tries to find out who this beloved was. A crucial figure in the transition between the Classical and Romantic eras in Classical music, he remains one of the most recognized and … This treat has a thin base of chocolate sponge cake and a chocolate mousse filling. It's actually the first entry. Was it returned? This letter is a touching and passionate love letter, written to someone who he loves and who clearly loves him back. Good night — as I am taking the waters, I must go to bed. MALTZ: Especially a married woman, I imagine. The first is easy: "... my life in W. is now a miserable life...". So when did Josephine marry Stackelberg? And so there were deep psychological reasons for him doing that. Beethoven is played by Gary Oldman, one of the finest actors around. ', STEBLIN: Yeah, it's like the French 'tu'. The letter’s unnamed recipient — Beethoven’s “Immortal Beloved” — remains a mystery, and continues to generate debate. . STEBLIN: Well, the letter itself is one of the most passionate letters that anyone has ever written and certainly the most passionate by a composer. Following Beethoven's death in 1827, an undelivered letter in his hand addressed to "Immortal Beloved" is discovered. I like to look at old problems from a new angle as I said, well… ‘Auf diese Art mit 'A' geht alles zu Grunde.” Why, why should the letter 'A' refer to the woman? It wasn't just her husband, Deym. We can listen to this love in the vibrant bliss, of so many passionate adagios, in the sorrow present in those painful tones, in so many melodies loaded with sadness and memories. It's believed that Beethoven had a surprise encounter with his Immortal Beloved in Prague on July 3rd, 1812, just three days before the 'Immortal Beloved' letter is written. Learn more about the era of Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven from my videos and podcast interviews with other Vienna-based performers and experts. document.links[i].href += "?js=yes"; Love demands everything and is quite right, so it is for me with you, for you with me — only you forget so easily, that I must live for you and for me — were we quite united, you would notice this painful feeling as little as I should . This Immortal Beloved letter by Beethoven is dated Monday July 6th. STEBLIN: Yes. MALTZ: Which of course, very similar to the 'Immortal Beloved' letter in the way that Beethoven says you're hiding yourself. Researchers have been divided as to whom was the intended recipient. I mean, you have this case where she did not allow him into her house and hid herself from him. So, in other words, he must have met this woman in Prague on the 3rd, because that's when he didn't keep his appointment. And we know that Beethoven met unexpectedly someone in Prague because in a letter later to Varnhagen von Ense, he apologizes for not having kept an appointment that he had made on the evening of July the 3rd. I'm going back to Vienna.’ And so that's why he never sent the letter. This kind of spiritual link was mentioned in a mysterious letter written by Josephine in 1818 to equally mysterious recipient. What longing in tears for you — You — my Life — my All — farewell. And so that's where it remained. MALTZ: So, as we mentioned, Josephine Brunsvik as the Immortal Beloved. With this in mind, the questions of certain researchers leave me wondering: - Did he know one or many women, or did he not know any? 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